I'll probably kick myself for not having made this suggestion sooner, but oh well.
I've been doing a lot of item selling to gather up moon tokens to unlock the recipe trees, and noticed some things feel a bit off. Sorry that this is wordy, that's just how I type online. I'll td;dr at the end!
For instance, iron is at the same monetary value of it's crafting counterpart, gold. Making the items meant to craft a more lucrative item more valuable in this regard. In fact there are several items where the crafting materials have the same or greater value than their crafted counterparts. Most items seem weighed in value by their usefulness, yet much harder items to get often only have a +100 moon token value to completely ordinary items.
Things like 1 star foods like crabcake and bottle of obsidian don't have a difference in it's buying or selling price, while other items like large design kits suffer a 75% value drop.
If I wanted to just craft a large design kit, I would be spending 1,800 value in moon tokens worth of items. A 125% increase. Not to mention the sheer moon tokens it takes to work down to even unlocking the recipe in the first place.
I thought when I started that by going out of my way to unlock my recipes that I'd be giving myself more free agency and saving myself currency. Unfortunately, at the moment it looks like the best course of action in the game is to just level up dragons and reap the chest box rewards while ignoring other mechanics. Since most openables are far more valuable in both use and cost.
I know we're incentivized to level our dragons, but at a certain point when you're up to your eyeballs in items. You'd think you wouldn't purge a majority of your hoard containing multiple rare and common items but still be left wanting to buy a simple background from the shop. Which, uh, ready for the roblox oof noise? 2000 to 100 once bought. A 95% drop. I get they're pricey because they're uncraftable. And under normal circumstances a player wouldn't blink at the price, just sell some stuff and buy it right? Maybe even ask another player to trade for items at resale value. Too bad for you, potentially newer player, that you could be asked for 4 dragon's talons for one frigid castle background use IF they're nice enough to base it on shop value. If not, better hope you have a geno they like friend.
TL;DR: Moon token prices are pretty untamed at the moment, so if you aren't paying attention (like me) you could really be shooting yourself in the foot.
It is certainly not an issue of how many items you have in your hoard - it is simply rebalancing the currency and cost of items we are trying to do while giving items a use so players are incentive to craft items!
At the end of the day trade among players is based on supply and demand. We don't step in unless something is being scammed. So if someone is wanting to trade 4 dragon talons for a background, thats their choice to make that price. Here's a peak at some of the changes that have been in the plan for reworking how items in souls are obtained as it has been a bit of multi stage processes to adjust.
Stage one was recategorizing all of our items into rarity based tiers. So every item has a rarity attached and a price attached via that rarity with a few that are adjusted outside of it such as eggs or DB vials. Additionally in stage 1 we set up items to sell for a LOT less than they used to because we wanted to tone down the amount of currency circulating in the market so that your hoard of gems were useful instead of sitting on a pile of them and saying "but what do I do with them?" This has a second part of course.
Stage 2 is crafting. We introduced the new crafting system + the updated recipes to make use of a lot of items that simply weren't being used. We are currently here with this finished staged but I know not every recipe is in its best place in terms of cost and/or ingredients.
Stage 3 is where we are moving next, which is to remove a lot of the items you can craft from being purchased or limiting them heavily in the shops by amount per time frame/per user purchased. You can see some of this already reflected. With these items removed from being heavily purchased, you are now encouraged to craft them with the items you get from activities - including the free ones and games like scouting and dungeons. We will also introduce bundle chests to the shops where you can get materials to craft items VS just outright buying the item. So we might have an animal product based pack that can give you a variety of bones, feathers, pelts, etc and maybe one that is based on gems, etc.
Lastly, we are updating the current chests you get from level up so you get more materials vs items. Again to encourage crafting. You can choose to sell the items you craft, but in the end without inflating these crafted items beyond the rarity thresholds we put in place it would be more lucrative for you to sell the ingredients. It will always be more lucrative to sell ingredients for an item you don't need at the time because they amount you need to craft the item will be more than the item gives. If that makes sense. Additionally, the value of an item, say a large item kit, is worth more than a few gems, some leather, and feathers.
We can look at adjusting the price of a crafted item to be a bit higher, but we won't be going too much higher since the idea is you are getting a lot of worth out of this item in terms of game play mechanics vs out of just selling it instead of selling its many ingredients.
I understand completely about the exchanges and I think I can say that also for the steps! It's standard that items of resale value outweigh their product in value. I was mostly pointing out the gap in the finished product since some were made with rarer items but finished being worth an uncommon, if that makes sense. I know we're not supposed to look at it from a minmax money grind perspective, it was just confusing to me (personally) that the shop's most expensive items are the backgrounds and nothing we craft really even came close. I'm fully of the opinion that rarer items should be a mg loss in crafting because their usefulness is of more value.
Essentially my logic was: oh this recipe wants 10000 mg I've got lots of good materials maybe I can craft them to be worth a lil more! (As in commons to uncommons or commons to common where it might have been noticeable). Oop, never mind. I'm now a fish salesman. Fresh eel! Caught this morning from farmer Jensen's ditches xD
Hey Xialthia!! I think I understand the issues here.
We will take a look at prices for buying/selling items and how they relate to crafting so we can find a better balance.
As for items having a 75% price drop when selling vs buying, this is to help keep he market a bit more balanced when it comes to rarer items. A lot of folks (especially our longer time players!!) have a hoard of moon gems and it has made some rarer items not so rare anymore. So we made a choice to lower the sale price to adjust for this. We are trying to find an equalized balance between the average amount of moon gems and new players coming in so that prices are fair and just!
Awesome. Most of the community is fantastic, but all it takes is one stinker to dissuade someone new. So I like to watch out for loopholes, thus my dragon talon example.
As for helping rebalance some hoards, I know retired things like dragon's blood can be swapped for premium currency. So why not extend it to the more "premium" items as a shop? Like the items sold during seasonal sales but only as a turn in. It'll give new players use for items they may not need for a long time and an incentive for old players to decrease any item saturation. Oldies get the benefit of pampering their favorite imports and maybe even get ahold of what is normally a $/Staff credit purchase, and newbies shrugging about what to do with all these breeding items when they aren't needing them right now get some preferred loot.
Xialthia
I'll probably kick myself for not having made this suggestion sooner, but oh well. I've been doing a lot of item selling to gather up moon tokens to unlock the recipe trees, and noticed some things feel a bit off. Sorry that this is wordy, that's just how I type online. I'll td;dr at the end! For instance, iron is at the same monetary value of it's crafting counterpart, gold. Making the items meant to craft a more lucrative item more valuable in this regard. In fact there are several items where the crafting materials have the same or greater value than their crafted counterparts. Most items seem weighed in value by their usefulness, yet much harder items to get often only have a +100 moon token value to completely ordinary items. Things like 1 star foods like crabcake and bottle of obsidian don't have a difference in it's buying or selling price, while other items like large design kits suffer a 75% value drop. If I wanted to just craft a large design kit, I would be spending 1,800 value in moon tokens worth of items. A 125% increase. Not to mention the sheer moon tokens it takes to work down to even unlocking the recipe in the first place. I thought when I started that by going out of my way to unlock my recipes that I'd be giving myself more free agency and saving myself currency. Unfortunately, at the moment it looks like the best course of action in the game is to just level up dragons and reap the chest box rewards while ignoring other mechanics. Since most openables are far more valuable in both use and cost. I know we're incentivized to level our dragons, but at a certain point when you're up to your eyeballs in items. You'd think you wouldn't purge a majority of your hoard containing multiple rare and common items but still be left wanting to buy a simple background from the shop. Which, uh, ready for the roblox oof noise? 2000 to 100 once bought. A 95% drop. I get they're pricey because they're uncraftable. And under normal circumstances a player wouldn't blink at the price, just sell some stuff and buy it right? Maybe even ask another player to trade for items at resale value. Too bad for you, potentially newer player, that you could be asked for 4 dragon's talons for one frigid castle background use IF they're nice enough to base it on shop value. If not, better hope you have a geno they like friend. TL;DR: Moon token prices are pretty untamed at the moment, so if you aren't paying attention (like me) you could really be shooting yourself in the foot.
2023-07-19 09:48:20
Feature Comment
Likes
Cryptid-Horror Staff Member
It is certainly not an issue of how many items you have in your hoard - it is simply rebalancing the currency and cost of items we are trying to do while giving items a use so players are incentive to craft items! At the end of the day trade among players is based on supply and demand. We don't step in unless something is being scammed. So if someone is wanting to trade 4 dragon talons for a background, thats their choice to make that price. Here's a peak at some of the changes that have been in the plan for reworking how items in souls are obtained as it has been a bit of multi stage processes to adjust. Stage one was recategorizing all of our items into rarity based tiers. So every item has a rarity attached and a price attached via that rarity with a few that are adjusted outside of it such as eggs or DB vials. Additionally in stage 1 we set up items to sell for a LOT less than they used to because we wanted to tone down the amount of currency circulating in the market so that your hoard of gems were useful instead of sitting on a pile of them and saying "but what do I do with them?" This has a second part of course. Stage 2 is crafting. We introduced the new crafting system + the updated recipes to make use of a lot of items that simply weren't being used. We are currently here with this finished staged but I know not every recipe is in its best place in terms of cost and/or ingredients. Stage 3 is where we are moving next, which is to remove a lot of the items you can craft from being purchased or limiting them heavily in the shops by amount per time frame/per user purchased. You can see some of this already reflected. With these items removed from being heavily purchased, you are now encouraged to craft them with the items you get from activities - including the free ones and games like scouting and dungeons. We will also introduce bundle chests to the shops where you can get materials to craft items VS just outright buying the item. So we might have an animal product based pack that can give you a variety of bones, feathers, pelts, etc and maybe one that is based on gems, etc. Lastly, we are updating the current chests you get from level up so you get more materials vs items. Again to encourage crafting. You can choose to sell the items you craft, but in the end without inflating these crafted items beyond the rarity thresholds we put in place it would be more lucrative for you to sell the ingredients. It will always be more lucrative to sell ingredients for an item you don't need at the time because they amount you need to craft the item will be more than the item gives. If that makes sense. Additionally, the value of an item, say a large item kit, is worth more than a few gems, some leather, and feathers. We can look at adjusting the price of a crafted item to be a bit higher, but we won't be going too much higher since the idea is you are getting a lot of worth out of this item in terms of game play mechanics vs out of just selling it instead of selling its many ingredients.
2023-07-19 14:33:05
Feature Comment
Likes
Xialthia
I understand completely about the exchanges and I think I can say that also for the steps! It's standard that items of resale value outweigh their product in value. I was mostly pointing out the gap in the finished product since some were made with rarer items but finished being worth an uncommon, if that makes sense. I know we're not supposed to look at it from a minmax money grind perspective, it was just confusing to me (personally) that the shop's most expensive items are the backgrounds and nothing we craft really even came close. I'm fully of the opinion that rarer items should be a mg loss in crafting because their usefulness is of more value. Essentially my logic was: oh this recipe wants 10000 mg I've got lots of good materials maybe I can craft them to be worth a lil more! (As in commons to uncommons or commons to common where it might have been noticeable). Oop, never mind. I'm now a fish salesman. Fresh eel! Caught this morning from farmer Jensen's ditches xD
2023-07-20 12:50:24
Feature Comment
Likes
Cryptid-Horror Staff Member
Hey Xialthia!! I think I understand the issues here. We will take a look at prices for buying/selling items and how they relate to crafting so we can find a better balance. As for items having a 75% price drop when selling vs buying, this is to help keep he market a bit more balanced when it comes to rarer items. A lot of folks (especially our longer time players!!) have a hoard of moon gems and it has made some rarer items not so rare anymore. So we made a choice to lower the sale price to adjust for this. We are trying to find an equalized balance between the average amount of moon gems and new players coming in so that prices are fair and just!
2023-07-19 12:17:58
Feature Comment
Likes
Xialthia
Awesome. Most of the community is fantastic, but all it takes is one stinker to dissuade someone new. So I like to watch out for loopholes, thus my dragon talon example. As for helping rebalance some hoards, I know retired things like dragon's blood can be swapped for premium currency. So why not extend it to the more "premium" items as a shop? Like the items sold during seasonal sales but only as a turn in. It'll give new players use for items they may not need for a long time and an incentive for old players to decrease any item saturation. Oldies get the benefit of pampering their favorite imports and maybe even get ahold of what is normally a $/Staff credit purchase, and newbies shrugging about what to do with all these breeding items when they aren't needing them right now get some preferred loot.
2023-07-19 13:02:59
Feature Comment
Likes